chacusha (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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finalfantasyland2011-05-23 11:15 pm
chacusha) wrote in finalfantasyland2011-05-23 11:15 pm
Entry tags:
[POLL] Game Restrictions & Separated Voting
Because the other post has veritably exploded over this issue, I'm making a new post to (1) clarify the specifics of this rule change, (2) elaborate on a new proposal that was raised in the other post, and (3) specify certain TYPES of challenge restrictions and have people vote on those.
Clearing stuff up about the proposal on game restrictions:
1. Is this for fic contests, art, graphics? What type of contests are up for debate?
ONLY fic contests. In fact let's make this more specific and say short fic (half-month) contests. People seemed to generally agree that an occasional game restriction on graphical contests is fine because you don't need to be familiar with the subject to make an icon for it (and in fact we have done an icontest like this in the past). Fic contests are, however, shakier because unfamiliarity with the eligible game(s) means you're unable to participate (unless you do, like, crazy research and/or just hope people don't notice you've never played the game you're writing fic for). I don't see there being any game restrictions on art challenges because there are not nearly enough art contests to justify this.
2. What do you mean by "occasional" game restrictions?
I'm talking one or two fic contests a game. And by that I mean, most likely, there would be one fic contest with a game restriction, and that could potentially be preceded, followed, or accompanied by a sister contest with the opposite game restriction. For example, in a month there might be a fic challenge where you can't use FF10, 12, or 13. The next fic challenge after that might be an FF10/12/13-centric challenge, or there may not be a complementary challenge at all. So by "occasional" I mean that there is a possibility of them happening. What I'm not talking about is game restrictions being the default for fic or happening most of the time.
3. What type of game restrictions are we talking about here?
Any you can think of. Because people might be okay with some restrictions and not others, and therefore it's not really fair/productive to talk about them generally, I've separated them out into different poll questions below.
4. Why is this being proposed?
For various reasons, the main ones I think being convenience to voters and fairness. Convenience to voters in that they don't have to compare fic from games they're familiar with to game that they're not familiar with, and that they can use the same criteria for voting. They can vote for technical ability, execution, flow, etc. for games they're not familiar with, and vote for the above-listed technical criteria, plus characterization, interesting concept, connections to the story/themes of a game, etc. for games they ARE familiar with. Fairness in that there is a voting where obscure games (which maybe 5-30% of the community knows) can compete against other obscure games, instead of against highly well-known games (that maybe 50-75% of the community knows)
5. What are the main issues with this?
The main issue seems to be that restricting games would cause people to be unable to participate in all writing contests. This means the number of entries on the restricted contest would take a hit. Issues were also raised that the proposed game restrictions would be unhelpful unless they were made extremely restrictive (for example, a too-loose grouping of games would mean that a person is STILL faced with a voting post where they know some games and are unfamiliar with others). Another point raised in response to fairness concerns is that authors who submit fic for obscure games are already aware that they'll get fewer votes, and are okay with that.
So in summary, the arguments for tend to be from a voting/mod perspective. Arguments against tend to be from a writer perspective.
6. Do popular entries really win more?
There isn't a lot of data, but I went ahead and did some number crunching on![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
sunflower_mynah's data, and from the sample we have, yes they win more but keep in mind that this may be dependent on the particular people competing, and also we don't have a lot of entries for obscure games, which skews the results.
* Determined roughly by looking atthedrowned's poll results, although I'm having difficulty determining which tier XII and IX should belong to
So yes, the most popular games do win a higher percentage of the awards compared to how many are entered. I have no idea if this is statistically significant or whatever. Don't look at me!
Finally, there was an idea proposed that I'd like to keep distinct from game restrictions, since the concept is a bit different. Let's call it "separated voting".
Idea #1: GAME RESTRICTIONS (original idea)
For this idea we're talking about occasionally putting restrictions on what games can be submitted to short fic contests. This means that there will be limitations on what games you could write fic for. I'm being intentionally vague because there are just so many ways to limit games that they have to be discussed separately.
Idea #2: SEPARATED VOTING (suggested separately here and here)
In contrast to the idea above, for this one, an occasional fic contest would allow multiple entries and then divide the entries received based on how well-known or obscure they are. For example, you might be able to submit TWO entries of whatever subject you like. When the mod collects the entries they might separate them into multiple voting sections based on how well-known the fic's game is.
Okay hopefully that clears everything up so we're on the same page. With all that info in mind, here are the polls.
NOTE: The following scenarios wouldn't all happen in one game. Take each one separately as something that can potentially happen in Game 2.
[Poll #1744693]
Form for a comment vote:
Clearing stuff up about the proposal on game restrictions:
1. Is this for fic contests, art, graphics? What type of contests are up for debate?
ONLY fic contests. In fact let's make this more specific and say short fic (half-month) contests. People seemed to generally agree that an occasional game restriction on graphical contests is fine because you don't need to be familiar with the subject to make an icon for it (and in fact we have done an icontest like this in the past). Fic contests are, however, shakier because unfamiliarity with the eligible game(s) means you're unable to participate (unless you do, like, crazy research and/or just hope people don't notice you've never played the game you're writing fic for). I don't see there being any game restrictions on art challenges because there are not nearly enough art contests to justify this.
2. What do you mean by "occasional" game restrictions?
I'm talking one or two fic contests a game. And by that I mean, most likely, there would be one fic contest with a game restriction, and that could potentially be preceded, followed, or accompanied by a sister contest with the opposite game restriction. For example, in a month there might be a fic challenge where you can't use FF10, 12, or 13. The next fic challenge after that might be an FF10/12/13-centric challenge, or there may not be a complementary challenge at all. So by "occasional" I mean that there is a possibility of them happening. What I'm not talking about is game restrictions being the default for fic or happening most of the time.
3. What type of game restrictions are we talking about here?
Any you can think of. Because people might be okay with some restrictions and not others, and therefore it's not really fair/productive to talk about them generally, I've separated them out into different poll questions below.
4. Why is this being proposed?
For various reasons, the main ones I think being convenience to voters and fairness. Convenience to voters in that they don't have to compare fic from games they're familiar with to game that they're not familiar with, and that they can use the same criteria for voting. They can vote for technical ability, execution, flow, etc. for games they're not familiar with, and vote for the above-listed technical criteria, plus characterization, interesting concept, connections to the story/themes of a game, etc. for games they ARE familiar with. Fairness in that there is a voting where obscure games (which maybe 5-30% of the community knows) can compete against other obscure games, instead of against highly well-known games (that maybe 50-75% of the community knows)
5. What are the main issues with this?
The main issue seems to be that restricting games would cause people to be unable to participate in all writing contests. This means the number of entries on the restricted contest would take a hit. Issues were also raised that the proposed game restrictions would be unhelpful unless they were made extremely restrictive (for example, a too-loose grouping of games would mean that a person is STILL faced with a voting post where they know some games and are unfamiliar with others). Another point raised in response to fairness concerns is that authors who submit fic for obscure games are already aware that they'll get fewer votes, and are okay with that.
So in summary, the arguments for tend to be from a voting/mod perspective. Arguments against tend to be from a writer perspective.
6. Do popular entries really win more?
There isn't a lot of data, but I went ahead and did some number crunching on
sunflower_mynah's data, and from the sample we have, yes they win more but keep in mind that this may be dependent on the particular people competing, and also we don't have a lot of entries for obscure games, which skews the results. | Popularity Tier* | Fic Only Stats | All Stats | ||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| # of Awards | # of Entries | % of Entries that Win | Share of Total Entries | Share of Awards | Number of Awards | Number of Entries | % of Entries that Win | Share of Total Entries | Share of Awards | |
| POPULAR: X/VII/VIII/XIII/VII(CC)/XII | 19 | 44 | 43% | 59% of entries | 70% of awards | 25 | 56 | 45% | 60% of entries | 69% of awards |
| MIDDLE: IX/IV/Dissidia/Tactics/X-2/VI | 7 | 23 | 30% | 31% of entries | 26% of awards | 9 | 28 | 32% | 30% of entries | 25% of awards |
| OBSCURE: TA/III/VII(DoC)/V/IV(TAY)/CC/XI | 1 | 7 | 14% | 9% of entries | 4% of awards | 2 | 9 | 22% | 10% of entries | 6% of awards |
* Determined roughly by looking at
thedrowned's poll results, although I'm having difficulty determining which tier XII and IX should belong toSo yes, the most popular games do win a higher percentage of the awards compared to how many are entered. I have no idea if this is statistically significant or whatever. Don't look at me!
Finally, there was an idea proposed that I'd like to keep distinct from game restrictions, since the concept is a bit different. Let's call it "separated voting".
Idea #1: GAME RESTRICTIONS (original idea)
For this idea we're talking about occasionally putting restrictions on what games can be submitted to short fic contests. This means that there will be limitations on what games you could write fic for. I'm being intentionally vague because there are just so many ways to limit games that they have to be discussed separately.
Idea #2: SEPARATED VOTING (suggested separately here and here)
In contrast to the idea above, for this one, an occasional fic contest would allow multiple entries and then divide the entries received based on how well-known or obscure they are. For example, you might be able to submit TWO entries of whatever subject you like. When the mod collects the entries they might separate them into multiple voting sections based on how well-known the fic's game is.
Okay hopefully that clears everything up so we're on the same page. With all that info in mind, here are the polls.
NOTE: The following scenarios wouldn't all happen in one game. Take each one separately as something that can potentially happen in Game 2.
[Poll #1744693]
Form for a comment vote:
no subject
Well, I'd probably write a few just because if I'm a Monk moderator, I should lead by example if I'm going to ask my teammates to also participate by submitting work. Genuine hypocrisy is not a good colour on me, I'm afraid.
It's just... the urge to participate kinda dwindled when faced with a lot of those options. If we're trying to encourage participation in these challenges (since writing tends to be on the low side unless it's limericks or very short stuff) and we're trying to get new members involved next game, how is this slew of 'if you do X, you can't do Y' look to them? /exaggeration. At the beginning, if the rules were like some of the above, I probably would not have participated for fear of doing it wrong.
I understand the issue. Context can be huge! But I feel that in trying to fix this one, a whole host of other ones will crop up.
no subject
I can definitely understand the issue, and I understand people's concern that they're not getting the context of certain games (and I did actually vote positively for two options that I feel would be the most fair to everyone in terms of separate voting
they also didn't seem quite as complicated either! XD), but I do have a feeling that trying to solve this issue might possibly backfire. I hope it doesn't because I like this comm and I want members to be happy, but I'm already starting to feel a little nervous about submitting next round (haha, maybe because I've written for more of the obscure ones so I feel like I'm sort of partially to blame for this becoming an issue? 0_0;)...hopefully that will go away once everything gets settled and resolved with the majority of members being happy or finding a middle-ground between the two camps. *crosses fingers* ♥