finalfantasyland | Community Feedback/Suggestions Part I

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Community Feedback/Suggestions Part I

COMMUNITY FEEDBACK PART I
(ff_classchange & ff_land)

Here's how this is going to work:

- There's going to be two phases to this whole community feedback process. During the first phase, I'll have you fill out general polls asking you to rate various aspects of the comm and make suggestions. During the second phase, I will collect all reasonable/feasible ideas that were suggested and put them to a vote.

- This series of posts are part of the first phase. The polls here are to help give me a general idea of how the comm is going, but mostly they're here to to jog your memory on various aspects of the comm that might need improvement. You're encouraged to make suggestions in the comments as you think of them and to respond to other people's suggestions.

- Comments are unscreened. However, anonymous commenting is allowed in case you're uncomfortable voicing your opinions with your name attached.

- Not all suggestions will go on to be voted on in the second phase. Some suggestions will be rejected without vote and some suggestions will be accepted without vote, at mod discretion.

- The mods have already put some thought into community improvement. Here's a list of things we've come up with so far:

Suggestions that will be voted on in Phase 2:

[GENERAL] Add Vagrant Story to the list of accepted FF games
[GENERAL] Add original Kingdom Hearts characters (e.g. Sora, Terra, Organization XIII, etc.) to the list of accepted FF games
[GENERAL] Use (different) alliances again in Game 2, or switch to individual teams

Suggestions that will be implemented without vote:

[GENERAL] Track & reward member participation with a fanworks incentive system
[FANWORKS] Allow people to set up "shops" as part of the above
[FANWORKS] Rework the moogle_workshop fanart scale
[SORTING] Remove the leader/supporter dichotomy from the app as it's made redundant by question 4

If you have concerns that would be fixed by any of the above, you do not have to mention them here.

- All suggestions (here and in the comments) are open to debate, so if you want to make an argument for or against an idea, you are encouraged to do so.

Onto the polls!

[Poll #1737741]

Polls/suggestion box will be open until Saturday May 21
If you need to change your vote, click on the "Poll #______" link at the top of the poll, then [ Fill out Poll ], then change your answers and resubmit.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

I'll get to the rest of this thread at some point when I've had more time to think/digest, but the first thing that I would be worried about in donating points to one team or another is fairness.

It was hard for me to join a team I quickly realized was *super* behind, particularly when I'd never been on LJ, let alone a landcomm, before. Most of the time I wrestled with, "Am I too active, am I being a jerk, am I stepping on people's toes, am I doing things correctly (frequently 'no,' to my chagrin)," and there weren't many other active soldiers in the team comm from whom to learn. Breyzy was awesome help with this.

The point is, during much of the game I felt what I did was largely irrelevant (due to the massively unequal score distribution), but was conversely glad to know the portion of the positive impact that was "mine," per se. Point-balancing could go either way, yes, but I know it would have discouraged me last round. If it felt arbitrary, I would be similarly discouraged. If it was offered with some kind of context or rules (i.e., was structured into the game), I would respond better to it. Just my two cents.

For what it's worth, I think you're doing awesomely. My first ~~three~~ year on LJ was pretty much spent lurking and being too afraid to involve myself in the fandom on here. Starting on a landcom first off would have been kinda overwhelming, honestly.

But yeah, uh, I agree that Soldiers will probably have a better go-around next Game, since there isn't such overpowering odds to dishearten you. Of course, with the Black Mages being on their epic participation roll, and the Thieves just being the immensely talented scoundrels that they are... Hopefully the point scales will be more on par with Monks/White Mages and you won't be put at such an initial disadvantage, if not 'equal' with the big two at the moment.

MWS, as mentioned above, is where the ground gets a little leveled between the teams. Yin, myself, Breyzy, hilian, haryan, V, Ari... You're not bad yourself with the fanworks! You could always give it a whirl when you have the time.

1. The three comms (Soldier/Dragoon/White Mage) each have only one mod. Honestly, I'd prefer all three of these teams (well, Soldier & White Mage, since Dragoons already have one) to get co-mod -- it's not an issue about whether a mod can handle the work of modding but just having one other person who is on good speaking terms with the main mod and who is equally responsible for encouraging participation.
~Actually, regarding this, I just recently talked to

tjemd4 about being a co-mod over at

mythril_swords...since he's usually commenting on most of the Reminder Posts there, I know that he's familiar with the team going-ons and he does participate in a lot of the challenges and min-games as well (and we're on each other's f-list, so we know each other well enough that we can talk about mod stuff/team information pretty easily!). He said that would be fine with him, so if it is all right with you I think

tjemd4 would be an awesome one. ♥ ~~Wasn't sure where else to put this, so I hope this will be okay!~~

As someone from the current 'mad participation' team... seriously, I'm really, really glad that you participated and I'm sorry you felt irrelevant. I know Soldiers have been behind due to lack of active members. :( But it does make me happy whenever I see Soldiers & Dragoons getting points or de-anoning or just plain participating. I mean, I think the first game suffered because of complete imbalance - it kind of eventually became a race between the top three teams (which is great for us but terrible for you guys), and I really appreciate that you spent a lot of time taking part in stuff despite the odds. I know I had a lot of fun RPing with you in Mafia.

Oh gosh, I really hadn't thought about new members perhaps making the game even more lopsided in a way: though that could be a distinct possibility too...but hopefully there will be more members who join who feel comfortable with participating to balance that out! *crosses fingers* Unfortunately, I think it does boil down a lot just to luck and randomness at times...who gets sorted into what teams, and which members are available to participate in a given instance, etc. Even with the teams that don't have as many active participants, there are quite a few members who do try to enter things or vote regularly...unfortunately, it just is a bit unbalanced in comparison to teams that perhaps do have more members who are able to do that more readily: most of the members who participate in things from Soldier, White Mage, and Dragoons tend to be the same people consistently depending on the challenges (and they do a good job too! ♥), but since there aren't as many of them who are able to do that--it definitely makes their efforts seem a little under the radar in comparison to other teams when it comes to the point tallying. But hopefully that will change with the second game and if members' schedules perhaps allow them to participate more.

I kind of have to agree with

tjemd4 on the donating points issue (hehe, besides...they're your points! Bear them proudly! ♥). Though that is a really kind gesture, it might seem a bit unfair to members if there are two teams that perhaps don't have as many active members in a given round and only a small difference in terms of their points or something (and by giving points to one team, that might have them becoming higher up than the other even if it is only by a small margin). Having you pop in to comment on things though might help a bit just to jump-start activity though in various team comms in a way, especially if there's perhaps a discussion thread that hasn't really been commented on yet that doesn't perhaps involve the games or something? *is unsure* Seeing people commenting might encourage others to do the same, I suppose is what I'm trying to say--especially everyone's favorite maintainer and mod of their favorite comm ~~though only if you have the time or feel like doing so, of course!~~. ♥

That might be rather beneficial in regards to the rearranged alliances too since hopefully more members from both of the teams will feel confident even in just saying hello and congratulating one another after game results and such (that did seem to happen a bit whenever the Dragoons and Soldiers did so...as both team mods would welcome new members of the other team or mention if they placed in their team posts as well). Alliances might be a good way to go if the comm does decide on them due to the teams still being rather small currently...however, I suppose it really does just depend on what the members want to do. :D

Lol @ the Monks ever standing a chance against the Thieves and Black Mages. :3

But yeah, seconding Myst here. Your presence is much appreciated! I don't think Turks would have been as much fun if Lightning, Celes and Elena weren't going around being collectively awesome and accusatory.

oh my god too much caffeine *teeth chatters*

I think you've been doing an amazing job participating, truthfully. ♥ And Breyzy always mentions how awesome the comm has been since you became a Soldier! Honestly, I think the lack of activity was getting to her a little bit...so just seeing a few more Soldier members commenting and submitting things really made her day.

The point is, during much of the game I felt what I did was largely irrelevant (due to the massively unequal score distribution), but was conversely glad to know the portion of the positive impact that was "mine," per se.
~...I kind of felt the same way at times during the game. After a certain point, it just seemed like participation wasn't going to matter either way because the top three teams were always so ahead of everyone else...but I feel bad that people who ARE active on the not-so-overly-active teams feel like they're not accomplishing things ~~I know how that can be disheartening, as I've felt that on occasion too~~. I still tried to get points though and have fun, and I know many of the other active members from Team White Mage, Soldier, and Dragoon tried to do the same. I did like the sense of accomplishment I got whenever I placed or managed to get points for my team because I then felt like I contributed at least a little something (even if it was purely out of luck sometimes and mad guessing skills I didn't know I had, lolz XD).

...Being put on a team when there is that high of a balance discrepancy already is not an easy hurdle to get over--all of the active members of White Mage, Dragoon, and Soldier have been doing wonderful despite that. I always feel the same when it comes to White Mage members who try to actively participate as well: so long as we have fun with the challenges and posting things, I hope that enthusiasm will be brought over into the next game for all of the teams. ♥

Everyone who was actively participating from those teams was awesome and deserves to be commended! :D And that goes to you especially since you were always doing a phenomenal job when you could. ♥

Hopefully with the next game there will be more of a balance for everyone involved since it is a new beginning and such. *crosses fingers*

Edited 2011-05-05 16:15 (UTC)

(This is a late reply, sorry!)

2) Regarding the team descriptions, I agree the Soldiers is least well-defined, and I kind of want to scrap that definition and put in something new. Any thoughts? I do think they have a "type" (and to me it's different from a Dragoon) but sometimes articulating it is kind of difficult. Alternatively, I might just do away with the personality descriptions and just describe the class and give a list of characters of that class and let people decide for themselves what personality they associate with each class?

Hey, we only overtook you guys fairly recently. <3

(By the way, Z, I loved your Kain and his armchair diagnoses, and now I'm imagining him with a psychiatrist's couch.)

Awesome! :D I'll add him as a maintainer and send an invite to

judge_magisters! I always thought

tjemd4 was a girl. ._.

Lol, the shoddy psychology nearly killed me, because there was three years of training screaming in my ear, 'tests! Evidence! Dsm-iv-r! You can't call Reno a psychopath!'

Even so, Kain went for it. And it was fun, in this epically taboo kind of way. *laugh* For the record, I liked your Celes! She was hit with tragedy pretty early on.

To be honest, I actually would prefer to have some place where I can donate my points! As it is now, I feel kind of sad whenever Ari or Eilia says I can participate in a minigame because I don't really have the incentive to participate when my points go into a black hole, especially if it's more work for them. D':

So basically the person it would serve the most is me. XD

I do think it would be pretty fair -- I'd only give to the 6th place team so if they ever surpass 5th place, I would switch to giving points to the new 6th place team. And because we have so many teams, giving to last place won't really affect the race at the top, unless all six teams are really close (in which case I wouldn't give my points to any team).

That's totally the side effect of getting a university degree. *nod* I can't look at books like King Solomon's Mines (which I enjoyed as a child) without thinking OH GOD COLONIALISM IMPERIALISM EXOTICIZING THE OTHER AAAARGH.

Awww, thanks!

True story: After that epic bikini conversation with Ari's Terra, I was thinking, "If Terra's the next to get killed off, Celes will be majorly upset."
Terra: [gets killed off]
Mysti: [staring at computer] Oh, crap.

If you really need help with the descriptions, maybe you can try explaining them to me and I'll see if I can flesh them out. Links to wiki might help, as well as a bit of a job class description, since there's still a bit of that involved (academia and puzzles seem to garner a more Black Mage inclined vote, and actually tinkering around with things a slightly more Thief vote)

The problem is that we're sorting job class by personality vs. job class by what you actually like to do, so people are definitely going to reference characters for that.

And, personality-wise, I think people will always associate certain characters more strongly with each class: Kain for Dragoons, Yuna for White Mages, Lightning for Soldiers, Zidane for Thieves, etc. to pull random examples off the top of my head. Those impressions are always going to skew perceptions of the class: if Squall's the main reference point for Soldiers, it's not going to be the same as Tidus being the main reference point for Soldiers. It may be a good idea to pick a few characters with different personalities instead of an entire list, so people get an idea of what the different ends of the spectrum look like.

I just want to add to the "you're awesome!" crowd, because seriously. I've wondered if members getting sorted into already inactive teams may discourage them to be inactive themselves, so I think it's great that you overcame the doubts you had. (As far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as being too active, and everything I've seen you do has been "correct!")

With any hope, the activity you and Breyzy have provided will help encourage future Soldiers as well. ;X I may be on one of the active teams, but I do wish it was a more equal fight between the six groups rather than a huge imbalance from 3rd to 4th.

She is! O_O ZOMG, I fail at typing when I'm tired. I can't believe I did that. *feels horrible now* :/

~But, thank you for adding her! I think having a co-mod there will really help. XD

Ah, I see! Well, in that case...I don't really think there would be an issue then, especially with how you were going to handle the point donation (sorry, for some reason I think I thought maybe it would be only once or something at the end of a game round instead of with the multiple point-tallying entries we have during the course of a game...not sure why I thought that! 0_0;). That does sound like a really good idea on how to do handle the point donation--and if it helps you feel better with participating and getting points, that is definitely good since you should have fun with the comm! ♥

Also (in a rather unrelated topic, sorry about that!), in my last Mod Post at Team White Mage, I asked if anyone would be interested in helping out as a co-mod there...and

purpletrance was nice enough to volunteer! It would probably be really helpful to have another person helping out at times during the next game, and she's been an awesome White Mage. :) Would it be possible to add her to the mod list there sometime soon?

So I was talking to Ari, and we sort of stumbled across some things that might help in sorting, especially with the Thief-Monk issue that seems to be brought up a lot:

Part of the problem may be that the current stamping application veers towards traits and dichotomies, whereas the difference between classes may turn up more in scenario-based questions? It may also help to break ties if it seems very difficult to choose between two classes for a particular applicant, because some traits are extremely general and can apply across classes, like 'intelligent', or 'optimistic', or 'helpful'. The Spider-man decision is something along that line, but it's still an 'either/or' question - would it help to expand it into something more general?

But, I dunno. If the 5th and 6th team are close, giving your points to the 6th might be really unfair to the 5th (or even the 4th)...

Edit: Okay, everyone else pointed that out too, sorry. XD;;

But another thought is -- I think I'd actually feel a little insulted about getting points donations. On the one hand, they'd be helpful, but on the other hand, it'd be like... y'know. I wanna earn my place, not just accept charity.

Edited 2011-05-06 03:43 (UTC)

Yeah. To add a little to this, I was thinking mostly how like, for example, the DO YOU PRESS THE BIG RED BUTTON dealie. Pressing it is both thiefy and monky, but to me, it feels more like, monks do it because "HEY IT'S A BUTTON! WHY NOT?" whereas thieves do it more because "I WANNA SEE WHAT HAPPENS IF I DO."

Also (in a rather unrelated topic, sorry about that!), in my last Mod Post at Team White Mage, I asked if anyone would be interested in helping out as a co-mod there...and [info]purpletrance was nice enough to volunteer! It would probably be really helpful to have another person helping out at times during the next game, and she's been an awesome White Mage. :) Would it be possible to add her to the mod list there sometime soon?

Sure, no problem! I'll make her an admin of

curaga_casters and invite her to join

judge_magisters. :)

This reply should go to everyone who replied to my comment but I'm too lazy to copypaste:

I'm not sure I see how it's unfair to 4th and 5th place... I would only be giving to the sixth place team so at best I would only be helping them catch up to 5th place. If they ever surpassed 5th place, I would then start giving points to the old 5th place, because they're now 6th... And my antics at the bottom shouldn't really affect the race at the top unless 1st and 6th place are close, in which case giving my points to a team wouldn't be fair, so I wouldn't.

Plus, I can't participate in UA. The only points I get are from stamping, minigames, and any fanworks I do (which isn't a lot).

Did I explain badly? I didn't think this would be met so negatively because I've participated in communities that had this policy, and there were only three teams. When my team was third and the mods gave any points they got to my team, I didn't feel insulted. It was nice having a bit of a boost, especially because our team was consistently the smallest.

As I mentioned to Yin, I just want to be able to participate and not feel like I'm wasting people's time. *sob*

That's a good suggestion, and someone else also made a similar suggestion (more scenario questions that get people thinking a bit deeper) earlier in the game. I'm kind of terrible at coming up with situational questions, though. If anyone has suggestions, I'd definitely consider adding them to the app.

*patpat* ;_;

I dunno. I guess I just don't like the idea...

If I were in 5th and someone caught up because they got extra points, I'd be kinda annoyed.

Plus, if I were in 6th and caught up because I got bonus points, it'd feel like less of an accomplishment, I guess you could say? Like, oh, we only caught up now because Tako helped, not because we did anything. I guess it kinda cheapens victories a little bit, for me...

But but then I'd be helping the team that just got caught up with so they can beat the 6th place team again.

And I mean, of course getting 5th place isn't an accomplishment if you can't keep it without my help. But that's going to be the same whether I help or not...

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Community Feedback/Suggestions Part I

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