[POLL] Rule Changes

[chacusha]

Please take this poll to determine rule changes for Game 2.


[PROPOSAL 1] Alliances in Game 2
A reminder of the alliance system -- The six teams here at ff_land get divided into pairs (alliances). The point values of allied teams are added together and the alliance with the highest total is declared the winner. Last game it was the Thief/Monk alliance.

For the next game, the new alliances would be Soldier & Thief, Monk & White Mage, and Black Mage & Dragoon. The individual team comms would all be combined as well, meaning that Thieves would be invited to the Soldier comm as members without posting access and vice versa. Of course, individual members can still choose whether or not they actually want to join/interact with their allied team but it seemed to help team morale overall last game.

• Rationale: Creates larger "teams" and allows uneven teams to be balanced.
• Arguments Against: I'm not sure if anyone brought up arguments but I can see it being more motivating to compete if you don't have to worry about the performance of your allied team. It also may interfere with building up individual team identity.


[PROPOSAL 2] Vagrant Story
While not a Final Fantasy game in name, Vagrant Story is officially part of the Ivalice Alliance along with games like Final Fantasy XII and Tactics (Advance (A2)). Originally intended to be separate from the Final Fantasy series, it was later purposely connected back to FF by references to it in later Ivalice Alliance games.

For more information see the FF Wikia.


[PROPOSAL 3] Kingdom Hearts original characters
Currently ff_land allows any KH fanworks that prominently feature the FF characters. However, things featuring ONLY KH original characters (I'm talking Sora, Riku, Namine, Organization XIII, Hayner, Aqua, Ventus, Eraqus, Ansem, etc. here, NOT Disney or imported FF characters) have always been a vague grey area.

I can see arguments both ways. While KH and FF are strongly linked and many people are fans of both, to me it's always seemed like a separate fandom. And while I love the KH games something fierce and even my mod icon and tag banner feature Aqua, I can see how allowing fanworks that only feature KH characters could be a slippery slope. So yes, please let me know your opinion on this one!


[PROPOSAL 4] Raising stamping and referral points
For this, I'm proposing to raise the points given for sorting an applicant from 5 to 10, and the points for referring someone from 50 to 60.

• Rationale: About 1/3 of the voters in the polls said 5 points was too low, and only 12% of last game's points were earned in FF Classchange (this includes referral points). FF Minigames and some scales in Moogle Workshop are getting a boost, so it might be good to inflate the sorting points to match. 60 is also a more easily divisible number than 50.
• Arguments Against: A majority said they were okay with 5 points per application, and 10 points might be a tad high for voting on an app... (but I don't want to use a non-round number, so it's got to be either 5 or 10). roax brought up concerns about too-high referral points here


[PROPOSAL 5] Occasional restrictions on games in contests in ultima_arena
For this proposal, there would be occasional restrictions on games allowed for contests, particularly fic contests. Currently, nearly all challenges in ultima_arena allow you to submit an entry featuring any FF game. The proposal here is to have challenges where the games you can choose from are limited in order to even the playing field, as not everyone is familiar with every game.

For example, a fic written for a highly obscure game might not get the same amount of attention as one with very recognizable characters. To solve this, there could be challenges where only obscure game fic is allowed, and other challenges that are focused on a particular popular game such as Final Fantasy X. See this thread for arguments for/against.


[PROPOSAL 6] One fewer short contest in the second half of the month
Currently, the contest schedule is: one month-long challenge, two half-month challenges in the first half of the month, and two half-month challenges in the second half of the month. The proposal here is to have only ONE half-month challenge during the second half of the month instead of two, for a total of 4 contests in a month rather than 5.

• Rationale: At most two challenges would be due at a time. Right now the max is three, with one of them being the big month-long challenge. It would also tone down the end-of-the-month point bonanza that happens in ultima_arena.
• Arguments Against: Not as many contests in the second half of the month to keep people occupied.



[Poll #1744111]



Thank you! :)

Comments

[lightofeilia.livejournal.com]

Alright, what about spoilers then? What if I'm currently playing FFVI, and there are two fics containing some spoilers? So if I am supposed to be voting fairly, am I being forced to read those two fics as well? Of course I could just not vote; something I am probably going to do if games are not restricted and I find myself in no position to vote unbiasedly (and this is totally my problem lol).

I'm probably going to have to concede regarding the matter of game restrictions, but something should be done about spoilers maybe?

_{LJ ate my comment =.=}

[arivess.livejournal.com]

I dunno. I think Tako does usually mention when a fic has spoilers, at least? I won't speak for anyone else, but when I write a spoiler, I know it means people who don't want to see the spoiler potentially won't read the fic, so I'm okay with it...

The thing with spoilers is kinda the same with restrictions, though. Say the restriction is for FF7 and 8, since that's the most likely. What if I don't want to see spoilers for one/both of those games? And if most of the fics contain spoilers, would I just not be able to vote, period? Even though I was already unable to enter, even, and I don't mind reading what I don't know? Or, heck, what if the restriction is for something like "SNES era games" and there are FF6 fics? Then your point would kinda still be unresolved.

I think you're right something should be done about spoilers. Not sure what, though... Tako already puts spoiler warnings, I think. Maybe we can do something like, just put a warning for minor spoilers, and put fics with heavy spoilers into a separate post altogether? But I dunno if that kind of singling out might have too detrimental an effect. You're the psych major.

[chacusha]

I'm not sure what to do about spoilers either. The rules as they stand right now are that you have to read ALL the entries in order to cast a vote, because I don't want people picking and choosing what entries they read and then have their vote count as much as anyone else's.

So basically, I can warn about spoilers but it doesn't really serve as anything other than a warning. And Yin's idea below to allow people to admit they didn't read all the entries because of spoilers -- I think that also has the same problem of allowing people to pick and choose the entries they read. :/

I don't know, this whole spoiler business is messy.

[breyzyyin.livejournal.com]

I think the issue with spoilers is also just the definition of the term. What does one consider an actual spoiler? To me, if a game has been out for years already then I don't think it is fair to feel like you have to warn about spoilers (if you've never played FFVII you might actually be spoiled about Aerith's death...or if you've never played Crisis Core you might be spoiled about the ending, but most gamers already know about Zack's and Aerith's fates. The original game has been out for YEARS now. Same for the FFX ending: most people I know already know what happens to Tidus at the end, even the ones who haven't played the game).

~I could see it possibly being an issue with people writing fics for lesser-known characters who don't get a lot of internet or gaming press information, like Red XIII's backstory or the Laguna and Raine story in FFVIII, but at the same time...with so much time elapsed from so many of the game releases people tend to write about here, I'm not entirely sure where the basic line between what is a spoiler and what is a basic plot point would fall. The latest FF games to come out recently have been FFXIII and FFXIV, and even they have been out for at least over a year.

~*Anything* could technically be a spoiler to people who haven't played a game. I can understand where someone who hasn't played a game doesn't want to read something with spoilers in it, but at the same time I don't think it is fair to restrict writers from writing about what they want to write either...but, is it fair to tell people that they have to read something that would spoil them for a game they are planning on playing and they're trying to avoid spoiling in the first place? It is actually a very tricky situation. Both sides have valid points and I feel bad that both options will probably limit the amounts of participation or voting (Yin puts Spoiler Warnings on her fics knowing it will probably steer some voters/readers away, but she does it so it won't spoil a game for a reader...not everyone is going to do that though, and I do feel bad that the instant something says "Spoiler Warning" people are going to steer clear of it, just like I feel bad that people probably aren't voting or reading the fics from games they don't know).

~It really does depend on how one views and defines "spoilers" in the long run...which is complicated in general because I've seen people have very differing opinions and views on what even constitutes a spoiler. O_O; ...Good luck with figuring everything out! I think these are questions that have plagued fandom for a long time. :/

[breyzyyin.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, I think spoilers are just hard issues to deal with. Considering the time-line between games coming out (FFXIII and XIV both being over a year-old), I'm not entirely sure how to define what would be a spoiler. Case in point: I write spoiler warnings for my fics (I did so with both the Tactics and DoC ones), but considering how long Tactics has been out and DoC is a few years old now...I'm not sure it was all that necessary to do so.

I think there are quite a few people who are like me and don't mind spoilers, and I'm pretty certain that there are a few games people aren't going to play regardless so I don't think it should be too bothersome for people to read spoilers for games they probably have no intention of playing. On the other hand, I do know that on the opposite side of the fence, there are quite a few people who have a very different stance on spoilers and who perhaps ARE planning on playing a certain game (or are in the middle of playing one) and they have been very good at avoiding the internet and possible spoilers. In that regard, I can definitely understand lightofeilia's views on them as I know quite a few people who feel the same way. And I feel bad that she says she's not going to be able to get voting participation for some of the challenges out of fear of spoilers. I think that was her being very respectful of the challenges because she is choosing to not pick and choose fics, but at the same time it's kind of bad in a way that she'll lose participation for voting points by doing so. I wasn't quite sure my idea was very good or sound, but I was trying to see if there was a possible middle-ground that could be reached for the people who are in that type of situation. :)

...The only thing I could suggest as a "counter-measure" test would be perhaps to try an AU fic challenge at some point. Naturally, you couldn't do that for EVERY fic challenge...but it would be a fic challenge where it really wouldn't be all that necessary to feel like you know the context of the game and it wouldn't have the threat of a spoiler anyways because the stories wouldn't be tied to the original game's plot overly much. I'm sorry if that seems like a dumb idea, it just kind of came to me while I was reading over the comments. ♥

[virago-queen.livejournal.com]

I kind of feel like as long as a game's been out for more than two years, spoilers are sort of just part of the fandom. I mean, is it a spoiler for me to reveal that Rufus is alive post-FFVII? Would I have to warn for pretty much any part of the Compilation? *shrug* I generally don't give warnings for that, though maybe I should.

AU challenge...I love this idea. <3 AUs are so much fun. Though it would be necessary to differentiate between "Alternate Reality" fics where the world is the same, but there are certain key differences, and true AUs.

[breyzyyin.livejournal.com]

I kind of have the same thought as you do concerning spoilers...personally, I feel like if something has been out past two years, discussing the plot and "spoilers" just comes with the territory (like, how many people don't know Roxas disappears in KH2 by now? Or how the whole plot line with Vivi in FFIX works out?). But, at the same time, I do usually warn for spoilers when I mention game ending-specific plot details only because I had a case when I accidentally spoiled something for someone and they got upset with me for it even though the series I was talking about (to someone else, orz!) had been completed five years beforehand...so I think I'm probably overly-cautious with it. XD That being said, I can definitely respect the opinions of people who don't like being spoiled because I know some people don't...regardless of how old the game is, especially if they're playing it for the first time. I think spoilers are definitely a hard issue to deal with because there are so many different ways people view them. O_O;

AU challenge...I love this idea. <3 AUs are so much fun. Though it would be necessary to differentiate between "Alternate Reality" fics where the world is the same, but there are certain key differences, and true AUs.
~Ahh, that's true! I forgot about that. Either one would probably be fun though! XD

[lightofeilia.livejournal.com]

The thing with spoilers is kinda the same with restrictions, though. Say the restriction is for FF7 and 8, since that's the most likely. What if I don't want to see spoilers for one/both of those games? And if most of the fics contain spoilers, would I just not be able to vote, period? Even though I was already unable to enter, even, and I don't mind reading what I don't know? Or, heck, what if the restriction is for something like "SNES era games" and there are FF6 fics? Then your point would kinda still be unresolved.

I wasn't asking for restrictions to be put for popular games only. I don't mind what the restriction is as long as there ARE restrictions. If the restriction is for a game I haven't played, then I would know, period, not to go read it for spoilers, nor would I be forced to vote unfairly for it. Or if I do vote for it, it would be fair because ALL of the fics I probably wouldn't get too much about, and I can vote based on writing style purely.

Whereas throw in an FF4 and FF8 fic, if both are equally well-written, I'm probably going to pick the FF8 just because I understand it better. I'm sure if I had played FF4, I would be able to judge more than that, but to me, well-written + context helps me to appreciate a fic more.

[breyzyyin.livejournal.com]

Ah, that I can definitely understand too! ♥ Everyone has different comfort levels with spoilers: I personally don't really mind them (for most games I tend to actively seek spoilers out in order to see if I'll really enjoy playing a game...as I usually tend to view knowing what happens and actually experiencing it for myself as being something different thus why I probably know far too much about most of the FF games, lolz), but I know that is definitely is not the case with everyone and there are quite a few people who WOULDN'T want to have a plot point revealed to them before they see it. And that is perfectly understandable and something that should be respected.

...Personally, whenever I submit a fic myself and I know there's going to be some pretty big plot spoilers in it--I'll make a point of warning about that right after the title even in the cases where it isn't MWS where they have that option (I actually did it for my FFVII: DoC letter fic because I knew I was spoiling part of the ending in it). I'm well-aware that might get people to avoid reading it, but I totally accept and understand that as I wouldn't want to inadvertently spoil something for someone who didn't want to know a plot point beforehand--I was actually quite happy that spoiler warning remained on the entry when all of the challenge submissions were posted. :)

I kind of wish there was a requirement for listing possible spoilers when submitting for challenges similar to the system set up in MWS for that very reason...so that people who don't want to see spoilers for a certain game's plot can avoid them. I think in those cases, it is completely understandable in my book to perhaps avoid voting on fics that you feel would have spoilers in them and only read the fics that you're more comfortable with (as there would hopefully be other entries that would either not have the spoilers or would be from games that you would already be familiar with)--you could even mention that in your vote to the mods as I am sure they would understand even if you weren't able to vote for the number of entries they were asking people to vote on (such as if it were five entries submitted, two were required for placement, and four or something had massive spoilers so you only felt comfortable voting on one). That way hopefully you could still participate and get voting points for your team without feeling like you couldn't vote entirely because of that. I think writers understand that when they do enter fics that are either spoiler-heavy or are from games that aren't too well-known (that's why there are such things as spoiler warnings in fic writing, fan fic writers know that they're giving people a head's up not to read a story if they don't want to be spoiled)...so even without the game restrictions, I think people wouldn't have a problem with you picking and choosing fics in that regard at all (it is your vote, after all! ♥).

So yes, I do agree with you that at least there should some of sort of form/guide-line for warning potential readers about spoilers in the challenge fics similar to the one in MWS. :D