[POLL] Rule Changes

[chacusha]

Please take this poll to determine rule changes for Game 2.


[PROPOSAL 1] Alliances in Game 2
A reminder of the alliance system -- The six teams here at ff_land get divided into pairs (alliances). The point values of allied teams are added together and the alliance with the highest total is declared the winner. Last game it was the Thief/Monk alliance.

For the next game, the new alliances would be Soldier & Thief, Monk & White Mage, and Black Mage & Dragoon. The individual team comms would all be combined as well, meaning that Thieves would be invited to the Soldier comm as members without posting access and vice versa. Of course, individual members can still choose whether or not they actually want to join/interact with their allied team but it seemed to help team morale overall last game.

• Rationale: Creates larger "teams" and allows uneven teams to be balanced.
• Arguments Against: I'm not sure if anyone brought up arguments but I can see it being more motivating to compete if you don't have to worry about the performance of your allied team. It also may interfere with building up individual team identity.


[PROPOSAL 2] Vagrant Story
While not a Final Fantasy game in name, Vagrant Story is officially part of the Ivalice Alliance along with games like Final Fantasy XII and Tactics (Advance (A2)). Originally intended to be separate from the Final Fantasy series, it was later purposely connected back to FF by references to it in later Ivalice Alliance games.

For more information see the FF Wikia.


[PROPOSAL 3] Kingdom Hearts original characters
Currently ff_land allows any KH fanworks that prominently feature the FF characters. However, things featuring ONLY KH original characters (I'm talking Sora, Riku, Namine, Organization XIII, Hayner, Aqua, Ventus, Eraqus, Ansem, etc. here, NOT Disney or imported FF characters) have always been a vague grey area.

I can see arguments both ways. While KH and FF are strongly linked and many people are fans of both, to me it's always seemed like a separate fandom. And while I love the KH games something fierce and even my mod icon and tag banner feature Aqua, I can see how allowing fanworks that only feature KH characters could be a slippery slope. So yes, please let me know your opinion on this one!


[PROPOSAL 4] Raising stamping and referral points
For this, I'm proposing to raise the points given for sorting an applicant from 5 to 10, and the points for referring someone from 50 to 60.

• Rationale: About 1/3 of the voters in the polls said 5 points was too low, and only 12% of last game's points were earned in FF Classchange (this includes referral points). FF Minigames and some scales in Moogle Workshop are getting a boost, so it might be good to inflate the sorting points to match. 60 is also a more easily divisible number than 50.
• Arguments Against: A majority said they were okay with 5 points per application, and 10 points might be a tad high for voting on an app... (but I don't want to use a non-round number, so it's got to be either 5 or 10). roax brought up concerns about too-high referral points here


[PROPOSAL 5] Occasional restrictions on games in contests in ultima_arena
For this proposal, there would be occasional restrictions on games allowed for contests, particularly fic contests. Currently, nearly all challenges in ultima_arena allow you to submit an entry featuring any FF game. The proposal here is to have challenges where the games you can choose from are limited in order to even the playing field, as not everyone is familiar with every game.

For example, a fic written for a highly obscure game might not get the same amount of attention as one with very recognizable characters. To solve this, there could be challenges where only obscure game fic is allowed, and other challenges that are focused on a particular popular game such as Final Fantasy X. See this thread for arguments for/against.


[PROPOSAL 6] One fewer short contest in the second half of the month
Currently, the contest schedule is: one month-long challenge, two half-month challenges in the first half of the month, and two half-month challenges in the second half of the month. The proposal here is to have only ONE half-month challenge during the second half of the month instead of two, for a total of 4 contests in a month rather than 5.

• Rationale: At most two challenges would be due at a time. Right now the max is three, with one of them being the big month-long challenge. It would also tone down the end-of-the-month point bonanza that happens in ultima_arena.
• Arguments Against: Not as many contests in the second half of the month to keep people occupied.



[Poll #1744111]



Thank you! :)

Comments

[arivess.livejournal.com]

*nods* I think it's kinda like this, yeah. When I write for obscure games, I'm not expecting people to pick them. I know people won't unless they're spectacular. But I want to write them, y'know? So, it's not like I'm saying anyone has to vote for them if they don't know them. Votes can happen for any reason, so what does it happen what the reason is?

And I was just thinking, the other problem is, if you start restricting fandoms, then you might as well start restricting pairings, too. Because given the same fandom and similar qualities of writing, people are going to go for fandoms they like more. Or characters they like more. Things like that.

People are always going to like something for some reason or other. So, if we're knowingly and willingly creating things we know not many people will appreciate, what's wrong with that?

[breyzyyin.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly...I like writing what I want to write at a given moment, so regardless if it is for an obscure game or for a more popular one--if I have an idea, I'm going to give it a shot and enjoy myself! Since votes can happen for any reason, I'm okay with that. :D

...I can understand that concern too. Pairing and character restrictions could easily start happening as well if games are restricted (and people will probably gravitate more towards the characters or pairings they themselves personally like and perhaps not pay attention to other entries as much).

People are always going to like something for some reason or other. So, if we're knowingly and willingly creating things we know not many people will appreciate, what's wrong with that?
~I think that's a very good point! :D

[the-404-error.livejournal.com]

I'm in agreement with this. Even if a contest were to only have FFIX characters involved, it's highly likely that a fic or icon about Quina or Eiko is more likely to be overlooked than one about Vivi or Zidane. Favoritism will always play a small part for those who vote that way now anyway.

... and, as I said in an earlier thread, it's not really too hard for me to put aside bias and vote based on content otherwise? I even remember voting for a Squall/Rinoa fic for the Valentine challenge, and I can think of nothing in FF I should dislike more.

I also definitely agree that it would limit the already low number of entries. While I marked games like VII in that ultima_arena poll, it's been ages since I've played it, so I wouldn't feel comfortable writing a fic about it... nor would I really have any desire to.

[breyzyyin.livejournal.com]

I agree! I think favoritism is just unfortunately a reality of voting for quite a few people (not everyone does it, and I know quite a few awesome people who don't here at ff_land ♥), but I think that there will always be a small amount of people who will tend to gravitate and vote more towards characters and games that they personally like more. And I think writing restrictions just kind of opens up more of a "playing to favoritism" kind of mindset when it comes to other aspects of fic writing too: if someone writes a story about a person's least favorite character or pairing from FFVII for example, does that automatically mean that the story won't be worth considering either? To some, that might BE a case where they're not going to appreciate the story or vote on it...but to others they will look at it and maybe even take more appreciation of it as putting a new light on something for them or just take into account that it is very well-written. I think the reasons why people vote vary greatly from person to person, so I'm not entirely sure there's any one solution to that conundrum.

...I could see giving up bias to be extremely hard for some, unfortunately I think that's just a reality of fandom stuff in general. But I've honestly been impressed so far with non-super-popular characters or games that I have seen exhibited in challenges and getting votes. If someone honestly gets inspired to write a story about ANY game or character, I think that's something that they should feel free to write and be happy submitting.

If you ask me to write about even a game that I maybe have written for in the past but for whatever reason just don't have as much of a desire to do so now (for instance, I tend to find it harder to write for FFVII...I did it recently for the letter challenge, but it was only because that was honestly the first idea that popped into my head for that challenge--if I was TOLD that I could only write for FFVII, I would probably be having a hard time of it since I normally don't get inspired to write about that world...and if I was told to write a story about a game I haven't played, I'd just not submit and then I'd feel guilty about losing points that way). I think personally it would really limit the amount of entries in challenges to begin with for that very reason: people won't write for games they haven't played or they don't feel inspired to write about...and people are probably not going to vote in the challenges that are focused on games they're not interested in themselves (I could so see a challenge for Crystal Chronicles getting pretty much ignored on both fronts, for instance).

[the-404-error.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, I'm positive a lot of people here wouldn't vote by favoritism, but if even a small number do, they're going to anyway.

To some, that might BE a case where they're not going to appreciate the story or vote on it...but to others they will look at it and maybe even take more appreciation of it as putting a new light on something for them or just take into account that it is very well-written.

Yes, and I think since the majority don't just skip over something they don't like or recognize, it shouldn't be too much of a problem... however, in close challenges (which almost all of them end up being, when looking at the numbers), those few voters voting for what they know or like the best can tip it over and push a possibly better written fic/better graphic out of the running. I really don't see how it's possible to fix this beyond reminding people to take into consideration more than just their favorite characters...

If someone honestly gets inspired to write a story about ANY game or character, I think that's something that they should feel free to write and be happy submitting.

Yes, this pretty much. If I write something for IV or II, I don't expect many people to read it (and I certainly don't expect it to win), but as long as I enjoyed writing it and at least one or two other people enjoyed it, it doesn't matter too much. Winning is fun for sure, but it's not the only factor... and then I end up pleasantly surprised if I do end up placing with something from a not-extremely-popular game. XD

[cowturtle.livejournal.com]

And I was just thinking, the other problem is, if you start restricting fandoms, then you might as well start restricting pairings, too. Because given the same fandom and similar qualities of writing, people are going to go for fandoms they like more. Or characters they like more. Things like that.

I have to disagree with that. If I've played through an entire game (or read the whole thing online, however people chose to get the story) then I know all of the characters and can understand any story concerning them. For instance, I love Fran and Balthier from FFXII, but don't really like Penelo. It's not that there's no way I would ever vote for a Penelo fic. Someone could write something about her that could make me see a scene with her as being different, or pair her up with someone I never imagined her with in a different way. The point is that I would be able to understand her, her feelings, her world, etc, and thus be aware of how cool a fic is.

On the other hand, I've never played FFII. So, let's say there's a story about Character X and he's looking out the window, contemplating the beautiful Character Y. I think it's a pretty ok-writting fic. No spelling errors or anything, but meh. It's about a guy watching a beautiful girl. It's been done. So I vote on something else. Secretly, though, X was actually Y's stalker in the game, and this is the point in the game right before he leaps from the window to assassinate her. It's the act that will later ultimately make him switch over to the good guys' side right before the epic last battle. Well, I probably would've voted for that fic, had I known the context of what I was witnessing.

I will always know when Penelo is well-written and when an FFXII story is good because I've played it and understand the game and characters. An FFII fic might be well-written but not strike me as terribly interesting because I don't know the story of the game.

In the end, if someone paired Penelo with Balthier I might not like the pairing, but at least I would be able to understand the characters, maybe why they ended up together, and understand the little things that go unsaid between them. The pairing doesn't matter, because I understand the game. The difference is that unless you write me a really blunt FFII fic, I'm probably not going to get your point. If you want to write something subtle-yet-amazing, I'm not going to get it and I'll probably vote for something else simply because I understand it better. I don't think that fair to the writer who puts a lot of time and effort into crafting a really near plot.

Urm. I hope that all made sense. :S

[arivess.livejournal.com]

I understand the concern there, but if it's unfair to anyone, it's unfair to the person who wrote the obscure FFII fic, in this example, right? But whoever writes that is not going to assume everyone will know what they're talking about. They'll know most people and will vote for the FFXII fic instead. But they still chose to write FFII instead of XII, knowing they'll get less entries because of game. So I don't see what's wrong with it.

When I write FFXI fics, for example, I know no one is going to know what I'm talking about aside from Breyzy and Yin. But I feel the prompt lends itself to this specific idea really well, and I know Breyzy and Yin will appreciate it, and that's all the reward I need, so to speak. I'm not asking anyone to understand it, and it's okay if they don't.

[cowturtle.livejournal.com]

But if the case is that it's unfair to the author of the FFII fic, then that seems to me all the more reason to give those authors more chances to be able to win a competition. I know that it's not impossible for an FFII author to win one of these competitions, but it sure seems less likely. The restrictions, if done properly, would likely yield roughly the same number of votes for obscure fics as they do now(because people who play those games, as well as people who are cool with reading fics from any games will both read/vote for them). It just seems to me that if would be more fair with the restrictions, or that it would put people on more equal footing, if that makes sense.

Also, if what you're saying about writing obscure fics is true for all of the writers of those fics, then the people who are most bothered by this are the voters, who feel like they either can't vote or like the stuff that they're reading doesn't matter to them. Again, adding restrictions would mean that voters could vote, at the very least, more confidently and possibly with more frequency (if they don't vote during competitions where there are a lot of fics for games that they don't play).

[arivess.livejournal.com]

But the problem is the number of "obscure" games.

We have mainstream: VII, VIII, X, XII, and XIII

We have kinda-obscure-but-decently-well-known: IV, V, VI, IX, FFT

And then everything else falls under "obscure", pretty much, which is some 20 games. :\ And most people aren't going to know all of them.

[cowturtle.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I'm just a little confused by what you mean. Do you mean that due to the number of obscure games, restrictions would be difficult, or...? :S

[arivess.livejournal.com]

Kind of. I mean like, for the obscure games, there are some 10 games that only 1-2 people have played. So the exact same problem would be present whether they're in a separate category or not.

[cowturtle.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I see what you mean now. Eilia were just having a discussion about it.