Game 3 Feedback - Part 3

[arivess.livejournal.com]

Part 3! Is... ultima_arena all by its lonesome self. I'm sorry, Tako and Xinn, I probably made more questions than you'd ever need the answers for. D:

Again, grading system for scales:

1 - CHANGE IT NOW CHANGE IT PLEASE
2 - There are some really, really big problems that need fixing like now
3-4 - There are some really big problems, but I'm not going to quit over them
5-6 - I don't really like it, but I can live with it
7-8 - There are some problems, but it's not too bad
9 - There really isn't anything wrong with it
10 - It's perfect, please don't change it!

Also, once again, textbox entry is 255 max, feel free to give me your answers, and mod contact will be up soon so you can ask the specific mods.

[Poll #1830278]

Comments

[sai_salamander]

Ah sorry, you can take my massive comment of doom in poll 1 to be applicable to this too? For my answer about more than one month-long contest - see my points on short fic contests! Could be run in tandem?

[breyzyyin.livejournal.com]

Well, my main thought on fan art was simply that if someone DOES happen to do a fan art piece that would give them a lot more points on MWS based on the art scale than even placing in a contest would...perhaps they should be allowed to submit the piece to MWS for more points then? I'm not an expert on fan art, but I do know that was something of an issue on one of the past challenges featuring it--and hopefully a balance can be made between all of the fan-works submissions and how much points they might get in comparison between MWS and the challenges if someone really does do something that would in the general fan works submissions garner them a lot more points. *is unsure if that even made sense and will be shutting up now, lolz*

And I do also see Sai's point about the shorter fiction and poetry writing contests perhaps needing to garner more points as well. I know I didn't even submit to quite a few of them because I find writing smaller fiction pieces and poetry in particular exceedingly difficult...and I really do have to give my hat off to those who are that insanely creative. I hope there is a way to maybe showcase more of an appreciation for that kind of skill with writing in terms of point-earning. :D

[glacialphoenix]

perhaps they should be allowed to submit the piece to MWS for more points then?

Actually, they are. I know there's a rule that says that if you would have earned more points had you submitted it to MWS, you can claim the point difference. (It gets tagged as !needs points: new fanwork though, so it might have slipped under the radar?)

[breyzyyin.livejournal.com]

Haha, probably then! Sorry about that. XD

[glacialphoenix]

No problem. It hasn't actually cropped up that often, I think? If you missed it, though, maybe it might be a good idea to make it more visible?

[breyzyyin.livejournal.com]

No, I think the only time it came up was during a particular fan art contest (and since I don't point tally for fan art, I probably did just overlook it *is forever stupid, lolz*). Maybe it would be a good idea to make it more visible though just for future reference? Sorry about that though, Mysti! ♥

[glacialphoenix]

Na, not stupid. It does tend to slip under the radar a lot - I think prior to this it was mentioned explicitly in an essay contest, because of a variation in the word limit. I'd personally like it to be a stopgap measure rather than something relied on, though - unexpected issues crop up, and if they happen, then we have it as a fallback, but it's not something we should be constantly resorting to? If that makes sense.

(You've nothing to apologise for, by the way. ^^; )

[breyzyyin.livejournal.com]

That does make sense, I think! ♥ :)

[glacialphoenix]

Okay, commenting on the participation points for other fiction writing contests, specifically those with a set format, like drabbles or villanelles. I'm... actually slightly confused, because we've had drabble contests... twice in all three games, I think? And in Game 1 they had a bonus (6 points, but back then we didn't have a drabble bonus), and... in Game 3 they didn't - it was still 6 points.

Anyway - my thought is this: fic participation points in UA tend towards being the same as MWS points. While it's difficult to adjust that for long fic (since we have a word-count range for that), I think there ought to be a small bonus if it's a set format. I think my main point of contention is this: for UA, you're a) writing to a deadline; b) if it doesn't fulfil that format, it's disqualified - so the rules of entry are, in that sense, stricter than what's in MWS. So... I feel that the points should be adjusted to reflect that difference, because it's what differentiates UA participation from MWS participation.

ETA regarding low point participation:

I haven't voted in that one yet, because I need clarification: what exactly is 'award placings as normal?'

[arivess.livejournal.com]

Award placings as normal means like... I think they meant, give out bonus points, and then give out a first, second, and third (or however many places).

[glacialphoenix]

Ah, all right. I wasn't sure if it meant that, or 'award points the way we've been doing so far', which is not exactly the same thing.

Okay. Leaving my opinion here in comments because I don't think it'll fit in the text-box. My issue is this: I like the extension idea, because then it opens it up to more people who might not have had the time to take part during the original period, and the people who did participate in the original period are being rewarded for their participation. The thing is that this assumes that you have enough for a competition (wherever that line is drawn) instead of defaulting to placing (so, ideally, five or six people total, perhaps?), which means the people who submitted earlier don't necessarily place. And if they do, well, then, good for them and they've earned it.

In the event that you don't get more people, though, it might be best to just cut the bonus and award placings as usual - because UA placings are worth a lot of points. I feel awarding a bonus and placings on top of that is kind of overkill. If you get a placing by default, that's already a hefty bonus, particularly if it's a month-long contest. I do believe the people who participate in low-participation contests deserve a bonus, but when the participation is low enough that your entry is guaranteed a placing, the amount of points you get from said placing is likely more than the participation bonus you'd have snagged if more people had joined, so I don't see a need to double it.

[chacusha]

I think there ought to be a small bonus if it's a set format.

Noted!

[rayiroth.livejournal.com]

Do you think a timed based bonus in contests may encourage participations a bit?

[arivess.livejournal.com]

Time based as in a bonus for submitting a week (or however number of days) before the deadline? Or as in a bonus for submitting by the deadline, and then having an extension, for low-participation ones?

[rayiroth.livejournal.com]

It would either be the former, or by the order of entry.

[arivess.livejournal.com]

I'll direct Tako and Xinn here to see. I think by a few days before the deadline might be good. The thing I'm worried about with by order of entry is the same thing a lot of people complained about for minigames -- where there were a few before where bonuses were given for answers coming in earlier, and some people missed them altogether because of different time zones. For contests, it'd be less of a problem because they take much longer to do than logic puzzles, but some people would still have half a day's head start over others. And if someone was submitting for points instead of expecting to win (like I did for icon contests before), they might just half-ass some entries to submit so they'd get bonus points for submitting earlier...

[rayiroth.livejournal.com]

The thing though, is that some of the contests really have incredibly low participation rate. I don't think points oriented submitting is necessarily a bad thing. I know I wouldn't submit anything if I were to expect to win.

[chacusha]

Regarding low-participation contests, I kind of think:

- If there are only 1 or 2 entries, it should be extended and bonus points awarded to those who submitted on time (how much, though, I have no idea)
- If there are only 3-5 entries, I think voting should be posted on time but
(1) the number of placings awarded is adjusted so that it's ≤ half the number of entries (no change from current rules)
(2) participation points are boosted (not sure by how much... maybe a function of how many placings were removed in (1)?)
(3) placing points are slightly reduced (again, not sure by how much) -- I think this is fair given that there is less competition and fewer placings, which means it's likely that non-participating teams will fall very behind if the placing points aren't toned down

[glacialphoenix]

Unrelated to low-participation contests, but relevant to UA: I just remembered community sticky posts were now possible (like the one Sai and I did for AL.) In the past the rules posts tend to get pushed back with new contests being added, but would it help you guys to make the rules post sticky so it's always the first thing people see in UA? That way people are less likely to miss out because the rules post was stuck somewhere two pages back due to new contests coming in. /random suggestion is random

[chacusha]

Sure, I'll try that! :)

[rayiroth.livejournal.com]

Are you comfortable with the way low-participation contests are handled, now that it's explained? (Ie, the total number of placings (including mod's choice and ties) will be no more than half of the total entries.

I think it would be nice to have an announcement of change of number of placing if there is going to be one, and have the choice of pulling out before the voting starts.

[chacusha]

Some questions:

I think it would be nice to have an announcement of change of number of placing if there is going to be one
1) Do you mean an announcement before the contest ends if we anticipate there will be a change of placings, a note on the contest itself that low participation might result in a reduction in number of placings (sort of like a persistent reminder that this is part of the rules), or a note on the voting post itself that the number of entries you're voting for is how many winning entries there will be?

have the choice of pulling out before the voting starts.
2) Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by this? Why would a participant want to pull their entries from the voting? Because they don't want their entry judged next to a small number of entries? Or because they don't want there to be voting and placing points? Anonymity issues? Or something else?

[rayiroth.livejournal.com]

1. yes.

2. I can imagine that people would have different motivations for wishing to pull out, just like people have different motivations for entering. the latter definitely had occurred to me.

[chacusha]

1. Er... sorry, I guess my question was unclear. I was asking which of those three were what you meant by "an announcement" -- (a) a separate post to UA warning people before the deadline that placings might be reduced because of low participation, (b) a recurring note present on contest writeups, or (c) a note present on the voting post after the contest has been closed up. Or (d) all of the above?

2. Okay. It's just... as a mod, I don't really want people pulling their entries from a contest at all, least of all from a low-participation one. I'd rather address anonymity concerns or whatever other concerns people have that would make them WANT to retract their entry from a contest in the first place.

[rayiroth.livejournal.com]

1. Apologies. I'm thinking in terms of A, but it's not really that important beside having the option.

2. I understand that. I believe I have stated in the past in a screened entry on why that is an issue, and while I understand that as a mod you don't want people to pull out of low-participation games, I can say that due to the specific situation that I can foresee happening again, as a player I would refrain from participating any contests without at least 3 other participants already confirmed in it. If my team were bigger I'd love to participate for the sake of it, but as it is I feel that I can't afford to mess up.